I once heard a sermon on the 4 answers to prayer.
1. Direct (Yes)
2. Disguised (Yes but not what you are expecting)
3. Delayed (Yes but not yet)
4. Denied (No)

So all prayers are answered, but not all are granted.

I do believe things happen for a reason, whether that's because of god, mother nature, karma, or pure randomness I don't know. Positive energy at best is a nudge in the right direction. All other things being equal prayer/positive energy/etc. may cast the deciding vote, but I don't know that it would cause a drastic change. Time travel would be the only way to prove that prayer caused something to happen that wouldn't have otherwise.

I don't want to end up ranting, so I'll stop now. What you guys have is a miracle, but I would be more inclined to call him a miracle of science than a miracle of god. Either way he rocks. :)

Wow, what heavy thoughts for the middle of the week.

The doctrine of the sovereignty of God is not an easy concept even for the most devout of Christians. There have been many books on this subject, because of how difficult it is to grasp.

For us yes, our Son died. Yes, thousands were praying for him and yet still Corbin died. Does that mean that we did not pray hard enough or were not strong enough christians, No. Does that mean our prayers were not answered? No, I beleive our prayers were answered. They were answered many times over for Corbin. Yet, why did Corbin die. Corbin is healed, he is now living a pain free and joyful life in the arms of Jesus. Only knowing joy and love.

We still have questions as his parents as do his brothers. We can't answer them yet have faith that God's plan for Corbin's life is better than what we could ever have envisioned for him.

Our son was very sick. Do I have feelings of jealousy over the fact that someone else's child is still alive and mine has gone. Yes, I am human. Does that mean I don't believe. No. I just have to remind myself of where he is and would I rather have him here on this earth facing what I know would be a very painful and difficult life.

I believe each of us before we are even conceived are given a date for birth and a date we die by God. (psalm 139) He has a plan for each person, each life is precious to him. We all are given a job to do on this earth. Even as we leave, our presence is still felt by others.

I know that this only skims your questions from your post.

Hope it helps some.

Terri

I'll try and send you an email later! I may have stumbled across the same mom w/in the last couple of weeks.. A baby in our church was healed in utero two years ago and as we wait for Seth, people remind me constantly of Eric. As if I need reminding.. I guess I don't think it has as much to do w/who prayed "hard enough" or whatever as that BIG picture wise, we can NOT ever understand the Plan of God. (yeah, I know, I'm making as much sense as your post did!) Thanks so much for bringing this up though, I believe I do possess a great faith and I'm really looking forward to seeing what other comments get shared here!

You have put into words the VERY thing I have thought for a long time...not just about CHD kids...but just about the issue of illness in general. I am not religious...used to go to church and sometimes wish I still did-but I don't because I feel like a skeptic...I admire people who have such faith. I really do-I'm almost jealous of it. But I have never settled that within myself...I can't. The way some make it and people say their prayers were answered...but other don't make it...were we all not praying hard enough?
For what it's worth-when prayers are asked for, I give them. I don't feel like I need to be a churchgoer to pray...and I figure it can't hurt...but do I think that me praying for someone is going to be the thing that saves their lives? At the same time, I wouldn't dare NOT pray...because I do believe in a positive energy-and I believe it cannot hurt to do it. Which is why I had everyone I know online and IRL praying for Sammy during his surgeries...

I don't know. I guess I am just as confused as you. And I hate being confused. The whole "It was God's will" thing...just uneasy to me. If I heard one more person whisper that to me at the funeral of a former student...I was going to hit someone. HARD. I just don't get it.

I do not believe that babies are healed by prayer. I do believe that having faith in God and the words of Jesus Christ can make a hugely positive impact on ones life (from my own recent experiences). I also believe, like Terri, that God has a plan for each of us. I also know that I lost a child (at 6 months in utero due to hydrops) in 2005 and my faith is what got me through. Two years later I believe with all my being that the reason I lost her is so that I would be saved and that our first born would grow up in a church home and come to know and accept Jesus Christ as his Saviour.

As for Sammy, I don't think its because y'all didn't pray enough, or have enough people praying for you. I just think that its part of Gods plan for him, you and J. Its quite possible that you won't know the reason for it for a long time, or ever. On the other hand, there may come a day in the not so distant future where something happens and you say to yourself, Oh! So thats it. That's why. That's what happened to me with Erin. It was two years before it was revealed to me why He took her home.

Wow...what a great post.

Here are my PERSONAL thoughts (not to be misconstrued as judgmental of others thoughts or beliefs):
1) I do not believe in a supreme being.
2) I do believe in cause and effect.
3) prayers and positive thoughts are beneficial.
4) if what a person believes benefits them and others and DOES NO HARM. It is "all good."

Prayer should be encouraged. It helps develop compassion. But, to believe that a god hears and answers our prayers or has preordained our lives denies cause and effect creating a fatalistic world where our actions cannot affect our condition. That said, prayer can affect our condition. By creating aspirations for the benefit of another, we develop positive mental states that make us stronger, more positive people which subtly changes our perceptions rendering our prayers answered not thanks to god but thanks to cause and effect.

I, personally, like to think it is the positive deeds of all the doctors, nurses, family and caretakers of Sophia that have helped her overcome all the challenges she faces. It is much easier for me to understand life, as it is, being the result of the desires and aspirations of those who live it and not the whim of a governing spirit.
However much one prays, it is the thoughtful and vigilant surgeon who guides his own practiced hands, not "God." It is humanity as a whole that has created a world where he can do such wonders. Perhaps we could call the ultimate potential to overcome the sufferings of this existence "God" or perhaps that is unnecessary. But, what is impossible to deny is cause and effect.

I certainly have many questions of my own, but personally I find faith (and prayer)is not something to change what might happen, but it is what is there to get you through whatever does happen.

Especially in times of need, prayer gives us something to focus on when we feel totally helpless. Believing in something bigger than ourselves gives us hope.

I hope you find the answers you're looking for or at least a peace within a restless spirit.

I don't have answers for you. I have questions of my own, but I do believe in God. I do think there is a higher power. Praying and believing helped me through my children being in the NICU. I've been following a blog just this week that maybe able to answer you questions though. Hope this helps some.

http://cfhusband.blogspot.com/

http://theaddyouthpastor.blogspot.com/

I could have (and have tried many times and then deleted the posts) much of what you just said. I think the previous comments are interesting too - about prayer giving you strength - as a person, as a group - I can totally understand that... *if* you can believe in it. And I too have kind of jealousy of those who believe so strongly - because I really really don't. There are times I wish I did - I wish I could believe so strongly in a "larger" force that I could trust and close my eyes and relinquish control for awhile - but instead I focus on trying to find that strength from within (instead of from above). But I think that's what it all comes down to - it's all about drawing strength from somewhere.

Wow, my friend. That is a hard one...even for professing Christians, as Terri said.

It's also an issue I've thought about for a very long time and in the end, I always end up in the same spot. The Lord who created this world and who gives life to all, created your child and mine. He knows his/her purpose her and how long he/she is going to be here, just as He does us.

I do believe God answers prayer and I do believe He answers in the best possible way for US, because He loves us. Sometimes that means saying "no" when we think the right answer is "yes." Sometimes He says "yes" when we least expect it. And sometimes things that happen break our heart.

I do not...I repeat I do not believe in "name it, claim it" theology. And I do not believe that some pray harder and if you don't hold your mouth just right (lol), than the Lord is going to "punish" or not "reward" you with the answer you were looking for.

As far as Terri's reference to Psalm 139, it is one of my very favorite passages of scripture, if not my very favorite of all time. Even before Marcus' birth, just knowing the Lord knows me that intimately was so precious to me. In the end, I try to trust Him with what He knows is best. We can only see one stroke of the painting, but he sees the complete picture.

"People of faith" have questions, too. We're human. We just choose to place our trust in one greater than ourselves.

I don't know if this helped any at all. Like you said, it's a REALLY tough subject to try to answer with words or even answer at all.

Just know that I love ya. I know this is a hard time, coming up to Sammy's cath and pre-Fontan anxieties. I KNOW it is...I've been there and it's tough. You're going to make it through, though. You are.

Have a great night (or day as the case may be)!

Shari

Well I'm not a Christian and have never believed in any god. And that's always bothered me too. It seems like God gets all the praise when good things happen... but none of the blame when things go wrong. And I just really can't figure out how that makes sense. But then I don't really try to figure it out, since the whole religion thing is just so far beyond me. I'm glad people can find the comfort they need... I just wish the select few didn't go around telling others how thankful they should be for God doing x or y. (I just ran into that the other day on a forum. It really really irritated me.)

Wow, Erika, you really hit it on the head. This is one of my huge pet peeves. When things go right, it's because of faith and prayer. When things go wrong, it was God's will and "He" had a bigger plan. What a complete insult to humanity! I guess it was God's will that 6 million Jews were tortured and killed in the Holocaust? What a "plan" he had for them! Oh, that's right - they didn't accept Christ as their savior. Give me a break!

I am spiritual, but I don't believe there is an omnipresent god up there controlling things and deciding who goes to heaven and hell. I believe that the concept of god was created by man to help them deal with the hardships and uncertainties of life. My whole family is pretty much atheist, so I am proof of what happens when you aren't brainwashed from birth to believe in the bible, god, and all that stuff. Yes, there are great life lessons and stories in the bible - but that's what they are - fables and tales (with historical facts sprinkled throughout). What is good about being raised this way is that I am open to all different kinds of spirituality and I don't believe any one religion as "the truth." Perhaps I will "find God" someday, as many people do when faced with adversity.

Btw, I am reading a book called "Breaking the Spell: Religion as Natural Phenomena" by Daniel Dennett. I highly recommend it for both believers and skeptics.

I don't have the answers and it scares me as well, even being a practicing Catholic who has prayed more in the last 4 years than I have in my entire life.

I don't think that one child is more worthy of living than another. I don't think that the amount or depth of prayers determine who is going to live or die. But I believe that the prayers help everyone involved - regardless of the outcome. Because even if the child dies, that child was in the hearts and thoughts and prayers of so many people ... so much positive energy cannot be a bad thing.

I will say that for me personally I believe that God has watched over Olivia. My grandmother as well. I truly believe she is with us every single day. I believe that she's personally responsible for how well Olivia's done because she was a tough cookie and wouldn't allow things to be any other way. Not that other family's don't have family members who are that way ... it just makes things easier for ME. I believe my faith has helped me get through the past 4 years as well. I think about how I was when I had my first 7 years ago. I was not a person of deep faith and I was a ball of nerves all the time. And my first was my healthy one! LOL. I feel my faith has made ME a better parent because I can turn some of the worry over to God. Not that someone of a different faith system isn't as good a parent, I just feel for me it makes me a better person than I was before.

Crap .. I'm rambling all over the place LOL. I just hope this makes sense.

And OT: but in response to Sammy having his fontan at 22lbs vs Olivia being 32lbs and having hers done: CHB does a much different Fontan than CCMC does.

I'm not a Christian either but I do believe faith in whatever you do believe is essential and God is just a name given by some who need something tangible to deal with or pray to. For me the energy, spirit, Riki, Karma, Buddha, God, Mohamed, Dahrma, whatever, is the thing that gets you through the day, that lifts you to be a better person, that strives to do unto others. They are all just labels in a world that seems to need them. I personally do not. As soon as I understood this and realized that we are all working toward the same thing in different ways, to be the best we can be, I was no longer bothered by the labels or questions and I could move into just being and believing what's within me. As a Mother of two adult children with a rare neuromuscular disease I have some insight into what you're going through, and I know the struggles of faith in looking for answers that will never come. Keep stepping forward dear Erika, while some days are a struggle to do just that, there's no other way to go :).

I should have posted this specific post when I comment previously. Here is a post that answers some of the questions you asked.

http://theaddyouthpastor.blogspot.com/2008/01/thought-rolled-through-my-head.html

Even though I don't have children, I often think the same think regarding a lot of stuff in my own life and the lives of others. When someone gets sick with cancer or some rare (or not-so-rare) disease, or they can't find a job or a house despite their continuted prayers and efforts, I'm not sure what to think about God. When I use to go to church, I questioned this and was told by a lot of people, "Oh, that just mean you're either not faithful enough in your prayers or you aren't praying hard enough. You have to PUSH -- pray until something happens." Now, that's stupid to me on a lot of levels.

I think about a little by my friend Kim knew. He was diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor, and his parents (dad was a pastor) were CERTAIN that God was going to heal him. The boy's name was Josiah, which means "Whom Jehovah has healed" or something like that. They exuded faith. They prayed, the made statements about their belief, they never gave up, they testiied everywhere they went, they started prayer chains, they sold red rubber bracelets with Josiah's name on them so others would continue to pray... and three years ago, their son passed away. So I have a hard times coming to terms with people saying they weren't faithful enough or they weren't praying hard enough.

I guess this is a really, really long way of saying amen, sister, I agree with this post, and, well-written!

I've questioned this particular topic myself lately. It's weird, because usually my friends or people who read me are very willing to leave comments. NO one wanted to touch this subject. Mostly because I think they believe. Two friends in particular have lost loved ones way too early and yet, they believe. I'm envious. I want to believe in something or someone, I really do, but I can't wrap my brain around the whole God thing. Specifically for the reasons you mentioned. I live a good life, I'm a good person and I teach my kids to be good people too. I think that should count for something even if I don't go to a church every Sunday.

This is a tough debate and there are shades of grey surrounding the issue of prayer because none of us really know for sure how it works. We as humans will never fully understand God. We just can't. Our finite minds will never be able to comprehend the infinite, omnipotent creator of everything. What we do know is that the Bible promises us that we can talk to God and He will listen:

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

1 John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

As for the woman who you wrote about whose baby was healed in-utero (and similar scenarios), I believe that God uses these situations to put the spotlight on himself so that we will recognize the miracle He has done and praise Him.

"Let me live that I may praise You . . ."
Ps 119:175

I believe that the power of prayer is amazing, yet one cannot get answers through prayer alone. There is more to the equation than just prayer, or reading scripture, or going to church or all three combined. When you pray for something, you must faithfully pray for it to also be in accordance with God�s will. Here�s where things get really grey because predestination beliefs vs. free will beliefs come into play. If a person�s life is predetermined, then why pray at all? But if a person has free will, then are the people who don�t pray �missing out�? I don�t know the answers to those things, but I do know that I�ll trust what God said when He told us to PRAY!

Btw, your post really made me sort through my beliefs. Thanks for making me think!

Well...

I am with you E. I am not a religous person, but more spiritual, I believe in a soul, positive energy, but not exactly sure what that means...

I have struggled with religion for years now. Having a severly handicapped daughter and now a heart babe, I find it hard to believe in anything.

I find prayer a common thread between people, and if they believe in God or Karma, Reiki, I find it is whatever gets you through those dark hours. I always say I "pray" for children ( I do it in my own way ) whether it is sending good thoughts, positive energy, or actually praying to God. The important thing is that a child is being thought of and somebody cares enough to take time to think of them.

I had many people praying for Hunter when he had his second surgery, and many thought that is what got him through, I am not convinced. I think more maybe to do with a good surgeon, and a strong baby, and ???? anything else I can think of.

I am stunned when people say there prayers were answered. Did God answer their prayers??? As for when your prayers are not answered, I hate when people say that was God's plan.... How the H&LL do you know this??? Maybe Bad luck.... I can't comprehend God making children sick/ ill for any reason.

I really don't know how to put my thoughts into words, because I don't really understand my own thoughts. I want every child to be healthy, live a full life. I hate reading about an innocent soul who has suffered with some disease or illness. How could this be anyone's will ( meaning God).

I would like to say that my husband was brought up very,very religous. But after our children daughter being disabled, and Hunter having CHD's he has litteraly turned his back on his religion. He wants nothing to do with any part of religion. He is Hurt, Angry, ( as I am too - more angry than anyhting.). And like you said. It is like a slap in the face when your child is sick. Did he not pray hard enough, or long enough. (I know that is not the case-- but some people don't understand.... I am a parent my child is sick. I don't want to hear anyone say it is because I didn't do anything good enough. Them are fight'n words.....

And if I hear one more person say " God only gives you what you can handle" I will smak'em. I have gotten through some very dark times, rough times, and very scarey times. Not because of my faith ( I don't know what that is anymore ) But it is because of my family, friends, and perfect stangers that just take the time to say they care. If you pray for my family, Thankyou. if you want to send well wishes Thankyou. If you just want to say you care, and you have no answers just being there helps. Thankyou..

As for everyone being here for a reason, I agree, but why should illness be a factor into that statement.

Anyway; I will stop rammbling, and will do my version of "praying" for all those I care about. ( you and Sammy ) and many more..

Heart Hugs~~
Drea

So I have no answers only more questions. But thankyou for the post. It makes you think!!

Erika, I struggle with the very same questions and I am a practicing Christian. I think it is very easy to have faith if nothing is going on in your life. How much more meaningful is it if you can say that you love and trust God despite whatever hardships have come your way. I had a meeting with my pastor a few weeks ago about this very subject. I have come to a place where I understand why there is evil and suffering in the world--it entered the world with the very first sin and has a ripple effect on everything and everyone. I can see that much good has come out of our situation. But I still would trade it all if my son were healthy.

So there must be a greater purpose. I believe that the greater purpose is for me and him and our family to be an example of letting Christ's love shine through every situation. And to show compassion and mercy to others on the same journey. If this hadn't happened to us I wouldn't be able to help anyone else. Anyway, all that to say that I still have issues with prayer. I do it, I do it all the time. I even pray for miracles and healing. But I just don't know if I believe it. My pastor says the main reason we should pray is because Jesus did and so we ought to. He also says there are some things that will happen even if we don't pray, some that won't happen unless we do pray, some that won't happen if we don't pray and some that will happen when we do pray. I have come to believe that prayer is more about having a relationship with God, which is what he wants and is not like a magic genie granting our every request. My favorite Bible verse is Philippians 4:6-7

Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

I like it because it says pray about everything and God will give you peace. It doesn't say you'll get what you asked for, but peace to get through the situation. One last thing before I end this rambling comment. Sometimes the only thing that can comfort me is thinking that this life is short in comparison to eternity in heaven. No matter what we go through here on earth it will seem like a blink of an eye once we get to heaven with Jesus.

I work in media relations for a hospital and much of my time is spent interacting with patients to discover their stories. I have seen people of all walks of life and many religions and belief systems. They all share one common thing--faith.

Sometimes it's faith in a miracle. Sometimes it's faith in a doctor.
Sometimes it's faith in a god or higher being.

But faith all stems from the same thing: hope in the unknown and believing in something when there's really no logical reason to.

No it's not fair that not everyone's prayer is always answered and who knows if praying helps to change the plan that God or fate has already made, but the way in which it brings people together to hope for the best--to keep the faith--can't do any harm.

I know this is kind of late, and I see you everyday but I had to write this.

I was raised around a very religious concept, and though it may be confusing to a lot of people, It is my belief that God does everything for a reason. Things will not happen if he does not want it to, no matter how bad the person wants it to. I am a very strong believer and living proof that he does answer prayers. It has nothing to do with the kind of person you are, its about how much you can handle. Sammy is truly amazing, and I should know! Perhaps that family was not ready and did not have the proper resources to handle that kind of situation. You are lucky, because who ever does not Sammy's condition would never be able to tell.

God may not give you what ever you pray for, but he definitely gives you enough opportunities to endure the situation and learn how to develop the right way to handle it.

He has shown me he listens to me many times, and I put all my trust in him. I guess you would need to actually get to know the religion to understand.

Just put your faith in him and he will definitely respond.

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond... I hope this helps...

When I found out about Gavins heart condition, I was devastated, I was mad, mad at God. I didn't understand why this had to happen to us? What did we do? Now I truly feel as if I know why. Gavin, like Sammy, has touched more peoples lives then we will ever know. Their strength and endurance has helped others to have hope for their children. I also feel that God has put Gavin in my life to help others and show them Gods love through all the sadness, hurt and anger. The bible says that these are Gods children, not ours and one day they will be with God again. That brings me strength and hope everyday, to know that one day my son will be in a better place, a place with no sickness, no hurt.

We don’t always have all the answers but we have learned to trust the One who does. Our lives – all of them – are in His hands. We must trust Him that whatever He does is for His purpose to accomplish His plans. Just like a parent who sometimes tells their child “Yes” and other times tell them “No.” Sometimes the child can convince the parent to change their mind and sometimes they cannot. The more you get to know God, the more you can trust Him no matter how He answers.

Erika, I dont have all the answers, and I dont want to "push God" on you, I just want you to know that you are loved and if you EVER want to talk more about this, you have my number, my email, my address. If you want to know more try reading Psalms, Proverbs and John... try to listen to what God says to you and make up your own mind. Love you! Faith